VIRGINIA BEACH
Police this afternoon identifed the man they say killed two maintenance employees at Thalia Gardens Apartments last night and then apparently killed himself.
The gunman was William T. Smith, 52, of the 4100 block of Inverness Road, said Margie Long, police spokeswoman.
The two victims are Rebecca Hughes, 32, of the 5300 block of Leicester Court in Virginia Beach; and Sam Shestul, 63, of the 1000 block of Woodrow Avenue in Norfolk.
Three people also were wounded, but police would not identify them. One is in critical condition and the other two were listed as stable, said police spokesman Adam Bernstein.
The maintenance workers and a manager at the apartment complex had gone to Smith’s apartment to do an inspection and start an eviction process, Bernstein said.
Smith began shooting at them without warning, Bernstein said. He was armed with an AK-47 assault rifle and a MAC 10, 9-mm handgun. “They were pretty much ambushed,” Bernstein said.
Police were called shortly before 5 p.m. yesterday to the apartments on Inverness where they found the body of a woman in a parking lot, Long said. They roped off the scene and, after a more than five-hour standoff, went into the apartment where they found Smith and another person dead. Police fired no shots.
The property is managed by S.L. Nusbaum Realty Company. The company has confirmed that some of the people who were killed or wounded were employees.
Michael R. Devine, a company vice president, spoke briefly with reporters at the site this morning. The employees who work on the site are considered part of the company's family, he said.
“We’re trying to get our family back together," said Devine, the company's vice president for multi-family housing. Grief counselors were being called to the complex, Devine said.
A fund is being established for the victims, Devine said, but the details still were being worked out this afternoon. “We’re working with the families,” Devine said. “They’ve had some devastating losses.”
William Halprin, a senior vice president with the real estate company, said company officials were at the complex all night.
"This is not something you learn in school and we’re just trying to figure out what to do today,” Halprin said.
Last night, one body was found on the ground outside the apartment building near the intersection of Inverness Road and Boggs Avenue. The other two bodies were found in the apartment where the gunman fled.
Within moments of the first of multiple calls to 911 dispatchers, police began to descend on the area and seal it off. Roadblocks were set up to close off several streets, and the city activated its reverse 911 phone system to call residents in the vicinity and alert them to the incident. Princess Anne High School also was placed under lock down.
At least one woman was taken to a hospital by ambulance while another victim was taken to Sentara Norfolk General Hospital by a helicopter that landed on a sports field behind Thalia Elementary School.
Shortly after 7 p.m., police began issuing orders by loudspeakers to the gunman to come out of the first floor apartment in the two-story, brick building where he was believed to have taken refuge. But there was no response.
Police then sent in a remote-controlled robot and pole-mounted cameras, often used for explosives investigations.
"Obviously, if we believe we have a shooter, we would rather send in the robot and have them shoot at that than send in police officers and have them start shooting at them," Bernstein said.
Police declared the scene secured at 10:23 p.m.yesterday. That allowed scores of people who had been blocked from reaching their homes, or told to remain inside their apartments behind locked doors, to again move freely.
Steve Stone, (757) 446-2309, steve.stone@pilotonline.com
Delicious
Digg
Reddit
Facebook
Google
Yahoo
Upload Your Video
iTunes Podcast
Video Feeds
Watch The Dot
donvabeach
What would the woman have done if the gun was in the basement and the killer was outside her bedroom door? What happened if she was walking to her car and got gunned down, her gun wouldn't have helped her, unless she was carrying it, but a shotgun wouldn't be able to fit in her purse. What would happen if one of her kids or grandkids got ahold of her shotgun? What if the killer found her gun and that was the gun that was used to kill her!?
There isn't any argument that anyone can present that says having a gun is 100% the way to go. It just causes more problems than it solves. I'm all for having protection at home and even on your person when you are out and about. But having a gun as that protection just creates a whole mess of problems.
Chances of someone breaking into your home with the intent on killing you are slim, it's possible, but slim. Chances of a curious child or snooping relative coming across your gun and accidently shooting themselves or someone else, are a tad bit higher.
Am I the only person to pay
Am I the only person to pay attention in my American history classs in high school?
I think most people do not see the point here. The the reason that we were given the right to bear arms is to keep govt. from having the power to do as they wish. Remember.......WE THE PEOPLE are suppose to run the country!!!! Remember the British unfairly ruled and taxed us? What happened......we took our arms and said we are not going to take this. THAT is what our right to bear arms is about and why our founding fathers included that in our Constitution. I am not saying that govt. is bad, but we need a way to make sure that WE THE PEOPLE stay in control of our government.
Hopefully I will never NEED an AK-47, but I will always want to keep the right to own one if I ever see the need to own one.
To CS
I don't think I am wrong about THE ORIGINAL INTENT of the Second Amendment. Samuel Adams, a handgun owner who pressed for an amendment stating that the "Constitution shall never be construed . . . to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms," Thomas Jefferson proposed that "no free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms," and Samuel Adams called for an amendment banning any law "to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
The Constitution was written as restrictions upon government. Government has power. People have rights.
The original intent of The Second Amendment was for "the people" to form militias in case of the need to rebel against a tyrannical government in the colonies. It makes no difference to me what Title 10 of federal law says about the militia of the United States. The argument is why it was put there in the first place. Why would the colonies "ask" permission from King George to shoot his solders? And yes, I know that I am a member of the militia.
I am the nra
Georges, the reason the pro-second amendment lobby is so strong is because individual Americans like me believe strongly enough about our rights to contribute money to organizations to petition the government on our behalf. That right is covered in the first amendment. If you believe so strongly in your position, instead of just complaining about it on an online forum you can always contribute to the Brady campaign or another lobby group. Incidentally, based on the reports coming from the arguments before the US Supreme Court on Tuesday, I think you're really going to hate the future. Looks pretty likely that they are going to reaffirm that the second amendment does, in fact, preserve the individual right to bear arms.
Re Ethan's Notes
Gotta agree with you there Ethan. I have never rented an apt. to someone of that disgraceful caliber before. I do however feel I am reasonably protected physically against such responses when & if the need to evict a tenant arises, however scantily clad, or heavily armed. I would prefer to use that robot with a few key modifications to do the evicting though. The robot is undeniably awesome. If it is auctioned, I will be bidding against you for ownership of that coveted mechanical creature.
Missing the point
I don’t know GeorgeS, I think your missing my point. Nut jobs like the man in the story shouldn’t have guns. I have no problem keeping those people from possessing them. My issue is how we are going to come up with an effective way to prevent this in a way that makes sense. i.e. a way that does not call for unilateral disarmament if for no other reason than it would be unrealistic to accomplish. Certain proposed legislation to the greater extent targets and affects the wrong people. The only way to accomplish some ideas of the anti-gun movement would be to turn society into George Orwell's '1984'.
I’m all for 'gun control', but don’t we have that already? What sort of control are you looking for and will it be effective at targeting the proper members of the populous? What would your barometer be in judging who is a nut job and who is simply an enthusiast/collector?
papabooey
Sorry that my 'rambling' gets to you. The Pilot has provided us this forum for opnions, and I intend to use it, with or without your consent.
If you would like to debate any point that I have made, I welcome it. But I won't stop expressing my opinions, despite your kind request.
jmo
Absolutism
What concerns me about gun advocates is their absolutism attitude of owning guns with no regard to any form of control or restrictions. They are a group of people with powerful money behind them that will fight to the death their right to absolutism's to own guns with no regard to any form of change. Our forefathers could have never had a clue what this country would turn into. NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS! Your absolutism attitude scares everyone who wants tighter gun comtrol laws, and it seems to me YOU would want the same thing. But you don't! You can tell me about a shooting while calling 911, and I can tell you about the 5, 6, 7 year olds who have found a loaded gun in the house and got killed playing with it. Such a thing just happened here in Hampton Roads and no one is being held responsible. That's wrong! And PLEASE, the comment about guns don't kill people do is the most LAME excuse for your absolutism gun rights I have ever heard, and it is actually MORANIC!
Lots of emotion
Lots of emotion and hyperbole since last night, but I am still waiting for someone to tell me what law, current or proposed, would have prevented this.
Recommend a realistic solution and I will become a rabid anti-gunner.
jmo
Welcome to the militia
“The Second Ammendment CLEARLY states that the "Right to Bear Arms" is to "FORM A MILITIA." I think you’ll find, based on articles written about the case presented to the US Supreme Ct this past Tuesday, that you’re wrong with this interpretation. But let’s suppose you’re right. According to federal law (Title 10, Subtitle A, Part I, Chap. 13, § 311: Militia: Composition and Classes: (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. (b) The classes of the militia are— (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia. Bet you didn’t know you were a member of the militia, did you?
To JChester
A question for you. Would you be able to guarantee on the life of someone most precious to you that if private ownership of firearms were completely banned, you and your loved one would be completely safe?
In reference to your definition of The Second Amendment, you need to read your history. You also omitted "the right of the people". These "people" are the same in the preamble of The Constitution and throughout The Bill of Rights. All of these rights are expressly for the individual and not a collective. Deal with it.
Also, when the thirteen colonies formed a union and became these united States, the federal government was an agent to the states. Not the other way around. 13 sovereign nations. For those who were taught that The Second Amendment meant that the federal government "allowed" states to form militias is absolute nonsense. Do some research.
This is reality.....and why you should have a gun.
From today's news: "WEST COVINA, California (AP) -- A woman was asking a 911 dispatcher for help when her pleas were interrupted by gunshots, then silence. She was shot to death. The woman told the dispatcher someone was trying to break into her home in upscale West Covina, L. A. County sheriff's Lt. Dan Rosenberg said. "Deputies heard gunshots followed by silence and an open phone line," he said. Deputies arrived at the house, 20 miles east of Los Angeles, a few minutes after Wednesday's late morning call. The woman, whose name was not released by police, had been shot several times. Paramedics pronounced her dead at the scene..."
People....don't tell me that owning a gun doesn't save lives. If she had a handgun, and knew how to use it, she might be alive tonight. Think about it. This is real. It happened today. Get a gun, train with it, and pray to God you'll never need it. But, if you do....aim for center mass, and pull that trigger...at least twice!
Nothing indicates it was an automatic weapon
AK-47s are also made semi-automatic, one trigger pull=one shot. The vast majority of them in this country are this type. Nothing at all indicates this was a fully automatic weapons aka a machine gun and there is every reason to believe it was not. Fully automatic weapons are very regulated and very expensive in this country. This is not an effective forum to try to educate the anti-gun fanatics. Suffice it say that the misinformation among them in these comments is overwhelming. FBI and other gov't crime data could quickly refute most of their arguments.
In closing I will point out, that while this man committed a violent, tragic act that any law-abiding firearm owner would find reprehensible, approximately 79,999,999 law-abiding firearm owners hurt no one with their privately owned and carried firearms today and prevented or stopped about 5,500 violent crimes.
I pose the question...
I pose the question, to all of the "true defenders of the Second Amendment":
HOW do we keep these WMDs (AK-47s & MAC-10s) out of the hands of CRAZY PEOPLE, when GUN SHOWS & their purely profit motived GUN DEALERS can sell anything they want, to anyone who can muster their purchase price???
HOW in the HELL are AK-47s or MAC-10s even AVAILABLE in the USA, much less in VA???
Where do we stop? Are neighborhood RPGs or ICBMs OK too?
What's too much for you?
When will the majority speak?
Another nut job with a gun - a machine gun - more innocent people dead.
Would this have happened if it was actually difficult for the nut job to arm himself to the teeth?
We'll never know because gun nuts insist on their absolute right to arm themselves and they will resist any gun law - including a law against automatic weapons.
Less than four out of 10 Americans own guns. The time is coming when the majority will say enough is enough. All that's uncertain is how many more innocents have to die before we take steps to end this senseless carnage.
Gun nuts have an excuse. They're crazy with fear. What's your excuse?
63 Impala and Patriot
Were are you getting your information that you need a class 3 license to own an AK-47. May be i missed it under the Va. state laws. As far as I am aware you do not need to have a class 3 license. The class 3 only applies to firearms dealers.
Sorry for the lose of fellow co workers
I work at a sister property, I am greatly sorry for the lose of our fellow S. L. Nusbaum family. Our prayers go out for your loved ones, and people who you touched in one way or another. I know it's every hard working at a complex not knowing what is behind the door in which you will knock on, it's rough. But we do that a chance of doing our job, because you have those who aren't mentialy stable and will snap in a drop of a dime or those who are having a rough day. But I know we have the right to bear arms, but I which people would have enough respect to know when it's the right time to use that arm. And stop taking lives of thoses who are working hard, have a furture and have a good thing going for them cutting there life short because yours isn't going so well but you make your own path. Also people need to know that us working in this field aren't there knocking on your door because we want to bug you, we are there because we were told to do so for some reason or another, but don't take it out on us, because this is our job what we get paid to do to put food in our families mouths, and keep a roof over their heads.
Kool Aid
I want to say thank you, to all those who fight so hard, to protect the rights of criminals, lunatics, mental defectives, and everyone else to own the most lethal and destructive weaponry made. Reading your comments and the logic contained therein contains more laughter than Saturday Night Live.
Like the Reverend Jim Jones said to his rabid band of followers, "Don't forget to drink your Kool Aid!"
NO ONE...
NO ONE needs an AK-47 or a MAC-10... PERIOD!!! The Russians ARE NOT coming!!!
If you think you do, PLEASE... GO SEE A SHRINK!!!
ANYONE amassing such weapons should be... 1. DISARMED! 2. Psychiatrically evaluated. 3. Prosecuted
Anyone that paranoid is a HUGE danger to us all!
Anyone willing to take his own life, to protect his weapons, is OBVIOUSLY, for lack of a better word... CRAZY!!!
Hunters need only shotguns & single-shot rifles. Don't even try to pretend otherwise.
The arguement for PISTOLS, for personal protection, is ludicrous. Statistics CLEARLY show that pistol OWNERS are FAR more likely to be SHOT WITH THEIR OWN WEAPONS, than they are to successfully defend themselves with one!
The Second Ammendment CLEARLY states that the "Right to Bear Arms" is to "FORM A MILITIA"!!!
Really???
Now just who will a "Militia" protect us against, in the age of ICBMs & shoulder fired missiles?
Long story short... there are WAY too many weapons, FAR too available to CRAZY PEOPLE out there. CRAZY PEOPLE have FAR too easy access to deadly force! We've seen it TOO many times to just think that it's just an anomily. VA Tech, Columbine, etc.
I pose the ques
If you don't believe in the right to bear arms
Then I don't believe in your right to free speech.
It's actually quite simple
They were killed by being shot. So unless there is something else that bullets come out of, they were killed by the weapon in this guy's hand, which is a gun. NO DUH the gun itself didn't kill anyone. The person behind the gun did. But if he had a baseball bat, knife, toothbrush or whatever these people wouldn't be dead, unless they stood there and let him beat them to death.
I just LOVE how people come up here and judge others THINKING they know that person. I voiced my opinion and it was reduced down to a punctuation error, honestly you couldn't find anything else to go on. Get a life, please!
Crime in other countries...
Maybe the reason crime rates are so much lower in other countries is because they have a higher regard for human life. Here, people treat human life as if it is a piece of trash with no meaning or value. I have lived overseas and know that despite the differences they may face amongst their own population, they do not act with death and out right brutal vengence.
Shameful Crap Here
Both sides of this Gun Rights Crap are wrong and some shameful ish over here.
First of all, what happened here was a tragedy. Be it guns or knives, this lunatic would've done something to hurt somebody. We should all be praying for the families involved.
But what do you gun rights losers do? Turn this into some soapbox for your cause. Shame crap here.
And you anti-guns idiots. Guns are protected by the 2nd Amendment. So unless you can get enough people with political power to override the Amendment, your arguments for outlawing guns are stupid. And even if that DOES happen, gun rights folks have enough power to overturn that Amendment -- like a little thing called Prohibition.
You know why the US has such high crime rate? It ain't cause of guns - it's cause of stupid, worthless, pathetic people like you. Getting all selfish and self-righteous about gun rights or gun bans and all that crap.
And you gun rights toads - what part of your rights can you justify any civilian to hold and own an AK-47 and a MAC-10 sub-machine gun? Both of those weapons are military assault firearms. No civilian should have access to that. And none of you with a legal hunting rifle or semi-au
Guns don't kill, people do
AJG8TR, "These people WOULD HAVE NOT been killed if it weren't for the gun."
I have owned a gun for years and it has not killed anyone. It is not the gun that kills it is the person that uses it that does so. Baseball bats, knives, boards, ropes, poisons, cars, etc. they all kill.
Your argument does not hold up....
ingnorant
These people WOULD HAVE NOT been killed if it weren't for the gun.
Arrogance, ignorance. Diminishes your antigun argument becuase it makes you appear extremely close-minded (which I'm quite sure you are).
I wont even ask you to prove it, because there's no way you can.
But hey, AJ, next time someone is killed with a knife or a baseball bat, you can post here and say something ignorant about how it would have been worse if the killer had used a gun. Please...
jmo
Why would anyone need a gun?
Seriously, you really can't do much with it, without having some kind of run in with the law. In todays world if someone breaks into your home, and you shoot them. I'm pretty sure the criminal (or the criminal's family) would be filing a lawsuit against you before the gun has a chance to cool off. And the worse part is more than likely THEY will win the lawsuit. Guns should be left to the professionals (and even when they shoot someone, they still have to cross their fingers that they won't be put in jail). These people WOULD HAVE NOT been killed if it weren't for the gun. Yes this man was crazy and probably would have attacked them with anything that he could get his hands on. If a gun wasn't involved these people would still be alive. I agree there should be strict gun laws and then after looking at those laws, make them even more strict.
Gun Laws
People I really wish you would get off the Gun Law Issue. I Mean even if you did have really strict gun Laws. Criminals are gonna get them anyway. I know you know of the Black Market. I mean Please all the criminals will have guns and the people wont have anything to protect themselfs we might as well be sheep out in the pasture waiting helplessly for the wolves. Ny city has very strict gun laws and no gun store anywhere in the city. But criminals still easily get them from the Black Market. Dont Want to tell people what I do for a living but Please believe, You people have no IDEA!!!!!!!!!!!! Sadly Guns are here to stay! So Can someone come up with another solution to the problem cause that horse was beaten to nothingness.
Georges
How can you judge me when you don't even know me? I would also like to join in the challenge to find one law that would have prevented this.
I have some ideas, but you won’t like them because they have nothing to do with banning firearms.
We are a country that was founded on the non-governmental ownership of firearms. At the time of the revolution, the government was a provisional authority overseen by the British government. The British didn’t just up and one day say "Were tired of this, were going home. The country is all yours." No, the freedom you enjoy today was earned from behind the barrel of a gun held by a private citizen. I'm not saying we still need them for that reason. I am saying that it is a part of who we are.
What's wrong with today's society isn't the private ownership of guns, but the moral and ethical attitude in our society. We need to work on bringing back the respect of human life. And that, my friend, has everything to do with what’s in the head, not the hands.
Yes we had this discussion 2 weeks ago and
we will continue to have this discussion every time there are killings by guns. The Supreme Count is currently reviewing the Gun Laws, and yes I think they need to be more restrictions. I do hate guns, but I've never said I was right and everyone in favor of them is wrong. What I will continue to say, is we NEED better and more gun control laws.
Some other notes
A: This is something you would expect from a distressed home-owner who bought more than they can legitimately afford but oddly feel entitled to their make-believe class of living. This guy's actions are a disgrace to renters everywhere. B: When the City of Virginia Beach can't make payroll due to budget shortcomings due to declining home values, I'd like to buy that robot at the fire-sale for pennies on the dollar. That thing looks cool!