CHESAPEAKE
About seven months ago, customers of Headlights and J.B.’s Gallery of Girls saw a change in the 50 or so dancers at the Chesapeake clubs:
The women’s pasties were gone.
The, er, uncovering was the result of a federal judge’s ruling last year that a Virginia law prohibiting lewd conduct at establishments with liquor licenses was unconstitutional and too broad.
Come July, however, the owner of the two Chesapeake clubs said a newly approved House of Delegates bill will force him and his dancers to bring back the nipple covers – or face losing his mixed beverage licenses.
The Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control “needs to get out of the business of regulating topless dancing,” said Buddy Brown, who owns the two Chesapeake clubs.
Del. John Cosgrove, R-Chesapeake, who sponsored the bill, said it will put ABC back on “constitutional footing” to enforce the law. Cosgrove argued Thursday that dancers at the Chesapeake clubs never had the right to go completely topless, despite the federal ruling last summer.
“The law had really never changed,” Cosgrove said. Once the judge prohibited ABC agents from enforcing it, club owners “just knew they could get away with it,” he said.
ABC agents have long been able to ticket restaurants or clubs that are deemed to have noisy, disorderly or lewd conduct on premises.
For Brown and his clubs on George Washington Highway, this meant all of his dancers had to wear pasties.
If the pasties fell off, Brown knew he could face a violation. So some of the dancers would use super-strength glue or double-sided carpet tape to keep them on, he said.
The Aug. 2, 2007, ruling of U.S. District Judge Walter D. Kelley Jr. changed all that, at least for a few months. The ruling was issued after a challenge to the law by six South Hampton Roads nightclubs repeatedly cited for disorderly and lewd conduct.
ABC asked for an emergency action to “restore the status quo with respect to the regulation of nudity and sexually oriented behavior” in licensed establishments, according to state documents.
Brown said business increased after his dancers went completely topless, but it wasn’t long before word got to Cosgrove .
A modified version of Cosgrove’s bill was approved by the General Assembly. Gov. Timothy M. Kaine has not signed it yet, a spokesman said.
The bill says an establishment can have its mixed beverage license suspended or revoked if there is entertainment of an “obscene” nature, “entertainment commonly called stripteasing, topless entertaining, or entertainment that has employees who are not clad both above and below the waist.” Brown feels this part of the bill is unfair.
“Who’s to say striptease isn’t artistic?” he asked.
For Brown’s club, dancers will cover up with pasties starting July 1. He said he will comply if Kaine signs the bill.
But he said he might challenge it.
Mike Saewitz, (757) 222-5207, mike.saewitz@pilotonline.com
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a response
I understand what you're saying now, but we obviously had a misunderstanding. The group of people who respond to marine mammals in distress in this area is known as a stranding team. It doesn't matter what the animal's predicament, they are the responders. I associate the stranding of marine mammals with an animal beached and unable to return to the water or stuck in netting offshore. The seal came ashore on its own and was able to return to the water and swim on its own. It was, however, in distress and needed help. Regardless, seals, unlike dolphins, do not rely on sonar and don't seem to be bothered by the Navy's sonar testing. The fishing net it was tangled in couldn't be blamed on the Navy either. I think that's what I was getting at; more that the animal was not "beached" and therefore it was unrelated to sonar testing.
Re BBINVB. Compassion, Covered Nipples, & Stranded Mammals
Actually I have no problem with compassion for animals, or strippers for that matter.. I'm all for it. The post, not "posts", I was referring to is the one where YOU, claimed that an animal that was actually was stranded, was in fact not. Perhaps you should review the post in question. Click on your comments.. If you did work at VMSM, as you claim, that makes the misidentification even more baffling. I mean the story did mention a "stranding team" 3X, & the animal, by definition, was stranded. And frankly I liked your comment on the "cover up the nipple story" & thought I said so, even though it's been many years since I've been to a "gentleman's club" myself. If I didn't say I liked that one, I'll say it now, & apologize, but the seal was stranded..While I don't worry about sensitivity, I was not trying to come off as unfriendly, & fear I may not have succeeded...:-) contractorva
contractorva
Obviously, you do not have compassion for animals if you disagree with my posts on stranded marine animals. Modern science has taught us how intelligent these creatures are and why we all need to coexist peacefully. I used to do volunteer work for the VMSM (now called the Virginia Aquarium), in school I was most focused on marine science, and I am involved in animal rescue locally. I am not a PETA person, in fact I dislike them in a BIG way, but I do believe in treating all animals humanely and doing what we can to help them. I am not a stripper, however, I do not believe my upper body is obscene, or that women exposing their breasts in a place where people pay for it is going to hurt anyone. Arguments against things like this are based on religion and shouldn't be allowed.
Too conservative
This state is going to hell in a hand basket over these petty bills and issues. Is this what my taxes are going towards?? Nipples are part of the human body and are in no way lewd. I think the lawmakers need to visit these clubs more often to loosen up a bit (I'm sure they do anyways)...
Get a grip...
Our legislators should just get the heck out of the way and let the ladies dance. It's irritating to be stuck in Virginia's transportation debacle while our legislators spend their time deciding whether a female dancer can show her nipples.
hmmmm
Lets see,
1. Truck nutz
2. bare nipples
3. What's next?
ROTFLMAO!!!!!
I am putting Cosgrove on my
I am putting Cosgrove on my "do not vote for" list...and Kaine will follow too if he signs this waste of time bill. Funny how they have time for this stuff but no time to figure out what to do about the roads!!!
Re BBINVB
I agree with a lot of your post & it certainly does display a certain amount of deductive reasoning. I would like to point out it's possible that your 300# hairy man could actually be "stranded" on the beach, due to his sheer girth, & unable to get up and cover himself, depending upon how tall he is.. Kind of like Ralphie's little brother in Xmas story when his mother overdressed him for the snow. However after the post "It Says Nothing About Stranding" in your comments..I have usually been taking your submissions at "face value" so to speak. To me personally, this post may be your only redeeming one, that I've read of yours, since prior to 03/08/2008. lol
When you get the chance
Look up some OLD ABC Laws still on the books for the Commonwealth of Virginia. You would be surprised who can and cannot drink, or even serve alcohol. These laws aren't currently being enforced, but they still can be.
The Degree of Covering Up Is The Only Difference
Men in extremist religions require that the women cover up from head to toe on the street and restrict women's movements in public. The men in these religions are enforcing modesty because they cannot control their urges. They justify their own shameful desires by making it "the woman's fault" that they cannot exercise self control. Furthermore, if topless dancers are such a threat to society, then it follows that there would be many more crimes at these establishments, which I haven't noticed in the newspaper's crime reports.
(By the way, General Assembly, take down that state flag too, oh ye of little self control.)
church and state
These women are not harming anyone by showing their nipples. If the customers pay to see them dance topless, they are obviously not offended by having topless women in the place. This is just about a small group of people putting their beliefs before everyone elses' rights. While we're on this topic, why on earth is it OK for a 300 pound, hairy man to enjoy the sunlight on his entire upper body at the beach, yet obscene if a woman bares her breast for the same purpose? Does the fact that a topless woman is more attractive than a topless man make it obscene? This type of law is sexist and lacking a logical explanation.
Re. Pasties Adhesives, & "Whats So Ugly"
I think as adhesive, painter's tape may be the answer. It purposely has a poor adhesive quality, which could be used to an advantage, if one were claiming a "wardrobe malfunction". Rose, I liked your post as well, but, in the part that says "talents & abilities", I would have squeezed the word assets in as well, since they would undoubtedly be a factor of income in the industry we are discussing.
Avert your eyes from the nipple!
If nipples are so obsene, then the state flag needs to have a pastie put on! More kids are going to see that than the nipples at a strip club. Come on people! Grow up!
It begs the question as to
It begs the question as to what is the definition of obscene? I would think at the very least it would be up to a judge to rule if the behavior was obscene rather than an ABC agent.
The Virginia "Commonwealth" Flag
So,
Is are the ABC agents prepared to cite ABC stores that display the Virginia "Commonwealth" Flag? It’s the one that has a topless woman without pasties on it…
If you are offended by a bare breast
You have have more issues than beer is going to fix and don't belong in a bar anyway. Rose, that is an excellent post by the way.
What's so ugly about a nipple that it should be covered up?
I've been told mine are nice. I'm not going to walk around with them exposed on the street and at my age it would take a while for anyone to convince me to get on stage and strip. Let's face it though, if a lady feels confident enough to dance topless and can even make a decent living doing so, then that should be her choice. I have heard of some dancers that have paid their way through college and continued to dance even after getting their degrees. The very politicians that are making up these laws are the same one's that will be in the news later for hiring prostitutes. If this is a moral issue, why did they decide to open ABC stores on Sundays? I see the dancers as no different than a football player or other athlete that use their talents and abilities to earn a living, and the customers are no different than the fans that attend the events. The politicians and the ABC needs to concentrate on real problems and leave the dancers and their customers to enjoy life.
Never thought to use carpet
Never thought to use carpet tape. My sweat and chest hair keeps them from sticking. I'm too sexy for the catwalk!
NIPPLES VS. TRANSPORTATION
Our lawmakers can kick transportation issue around like a dead dog for 25+ years and not solve anything. But when it comes to nipples...
Let him know!
Here's John Cosgrove's VA House of Delegates contact information. Let him know how you feel, let him know that wasting the taxpayers' money on this sort of thing is absurd...
Capitol Office:
General Assembly Building
P.O. Box 406
Richmond, Virginia 23218
Phone: (804) 698-1078
Fax: (804) 698-6778
Constituent Viewpoint: (800)-889-0229
Email: DelJCosgrove@house.state.va.us
District Office:
P.O. Box 15483
Chesapeake, VA 23328
Phone: (757) 547-3422
Fax: (757)547-3372
Email: DelJCosgrove@house.state.va.us
if they pass this bill just
if they pass this bill just get pasties that look like a nipple , and then thumb your nose at those abc bible , toters , I think the abc board should remove the state seal off there doors it also has a naked breast on it , better yet the state should just get a new state flag so it will not offend these bible belters , or stop serving alcohol and serve coke
This is important how?
Show me one empirical study that shows that topless dancing causes a surge in crime. Show me something solid that proves beyond a doubt that it harms communities. Show me SOMETHING that proves that this is anything but a bunch of bible-thumpers and busybodies getting their corsets in a knot, and THEN I'll consider that this might be worth the legislative time and money. Can't do it, can you? Didn't think so. I would think with all the issues facing the Commonwealth today, our delegates would have more urgent things on their plates than forcing topless dancers to wear pasties. It's not as if these women are dancing naked in front of the local kindergarten - if topless dancing offends you, don't go to those establishments (and if you can't figure out which ones they are, you fail at life).
To Mr. Pink: ...what? Get a grip, buddy. Oh, and what's a "holly man"?
Cosgrove
I think Cosgrove is just trying to make a name for himself. In my opinion the majority of the representatives in the General Assembly are morons.
Concealed Nipples & "whatever"
The customers there have already seen the nipple, & have apparently returned to see them again. Covering them back up is not only ridiculous, but, redundant. "Whatever". good point. I've been considering "loopholes" as well. I'm considering joining your fan club!
Shameful
Our legislators need to worry about transportation, not pasties. This issue is pointless and complete waste of tax money. Besides, who really cares if dancers wear pasties? The folks that desire to limit exposure of female dancers to men would most likely rather eliminate this form of entertainment completely, and that is unacceptable. Consider this also; what benefit to does this silly law provide? In my opinion, none. It is just one more rule the ABC agents are compelled to enforce which detracts from their other, more relevant duties...
Has this ever been tried?
In other parts of the country with the same legal issues, dancers make each dance a theatrical performance. Give them a script. Let them act things out. Such an easy loophole. Come on Buddy Brown. This is so much bigger than pasties and dancers. This is about the American Dream.
Hey hey, ho ho, those pasties have got to go.....
holly man
you folks are livin a life of sin! you need to embrace jesus in yo life. you need to ask yourself..what would he do?!
ABC
ABC needs to get out of the censorship business. If anyone is bothered by these kind of places, just don't go. It's that simple.
This is beyond ignorant - get to work on real issues John!
ABC should not be in the enforcement of morality business! I've said it a thousand times (if not more): The government cannot legislate morality.
These types of clubs are only regulated on the thinnest of margins in this department anyway, so why even bother? Customers are there for one thing, and one thing only, so let it be Cosgrove. If I go into a JB's, I know pretty much what to expect, and what one sees is not but a gnat's hair different if the girls are wearing pasties versus completely topless. What's the point???
This is just more Big Brother trying to take the high-road of morality through a ridiculously intolerant law. Furthermore, putting that enforcement into the hands of the ABC is just beyond ignorant... two stupid decisions doesn't make one good one.
Don't leave out those powerful monkey nipples Lawmakers
I was at a zoo once and complained about those primitive nipples calling me, so the care taker put the primate in a two piece bikini of the itsy bitsy yellow polka dot variety. Problem is those hairy legs were still exposed and I know why the crowd had really gathered around her cage. Anyway, I surely hope this issue is not the cause of the Legislature missing its' last dead-line at a $20,000 per day per diem. ADULT club my foot (with sox of course)